The Joy Formidable

Welsh band The Joy Formidable get the spotlight as the hosts dig into their overlooked catalog and massive sound. Between an AI guessing game gone wrong, some serious concert amnesia, and thoughts on music therapy, they explore why this sonic-rollercoaster band deserves way more recognition. From "The Big Roar" to Utah wilderness vibes - check out this dynamic trio. Earshifter playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/11coHhMoyAQSjcuPOHMMwZ?si=74dd00011d714eb5  UPDATE: Dave Grohl's had some stuff come out since we recorded this – proving that nobody's perfect.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

music music

SPEAKER_01: 0:16

Welcome to Ear Shifter. He's Rene Rouleau.

SPEAKER_00: 0:19

And he's Sean Kapstick. And Rene, why are we here? We are here, Sean, because this podcast is all about discovery. It's actually about two things. Discovery, meaning discovering new bands you've never heard of that we feel are great and, you know, maybe just didn't get enough exposure. And maybe you should give them a try as well. But it's also for the fans. Like, you know, for example, if you liked a band called Change of Heart that worked by Fandive. Which I do.

UNKNOWN: 0:46

Hmm?

SPEAKER_01: 0:46

Which I

SPEAKER_00: 0:47

do. Which you do. Then, you know what? You're going to actually listen to the podcast about Change of Heart, which was episode one. And you're going to learn all about Change of Heart. And you won't have to go to the internet and find all the information you want to find about Change of Heart. But today, it's not about Change of Heart. Today, it's the joy for Madabla. And are you sure about that? I am not sure about the pronunciation of them. For about 12 years, Sean and I, and I think it's my fault, Sean, referred to the band as the Joy Formidable. During my research, I discovered it's actually the Joy Formidable. I'm not sure which one I like more, to be honest, but maybe it's just sentimental for us, the Formidable part. But as I was researching, I actually thought this would be fun, Sean. I thought, why don't I actually use good old chat GPT? Because you're so modern. Because I'm so modern and hip and do 10 fun facts about the Joy Formidable. So this is what I did. I did exactly that but we also know that chat gpt when it doesn't know information and actually does something that is termed hallucinations meaning it actually just makes up shit so i have three facts about the band based on chat gpt and sean i'm gonna ask you true or false so i'm gonna state the the fact and you're gonna tell me do you think it's true or do you think it's false and of course all of these according to chat gpt are all true okay all right so the first one is The band's name comes from a line in a Welsh language poem by William Williams. True or false?

SPEAKER_01: 2:25

I'm not familiar with Bill Bill, but I would say it's false because forebedabble is not a Welsh word.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33

Correct. Not true. Ritzy, the lead singer, said, actually, they just kicked around some names and it was floating around while they developed their sound. Simple as that. Number two. They toured with Foo Fighters at one time. True or false? I'm going to say that's true. Well, you're kind of half right. They actually toured with them twice. But Shaq GBT actually just talked about the bigger one, which was in 2018 on the west coast of the US. Apparently, Dave Grohl heard them on the radio, got the album and liked it and just asked them to go on tour with them. Because that's what he does. Because that's what he does. They didn't say which album in the actual article, but that's pretty cool. And And Ritzy actually said that, no surprise, Dave Grohl was a gentleman and totally cool on tour. So props to Dave Grohl for sure. Number three. They had music in the amazing Spider-Man 2 movie. True or false?

SPEAKER_01: 3:33

The new one that's a cartoon or the old one with the old Spider-Man? Tobey Maguire or whatever? Tobey Maguire. The old one.

UNKNOWN: 3:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 3:43

I could be possible. It's the same contemporary time, but I'm going to say it's false. Oh,

SPEAKER_00: 3:51

good. Yeah, so it's not true. But they did have the song called End Tapes, which was a single from the Twilight Saga soundtrack in 2011. Ritzy said it was one of their earliest songs where they really were just finding their sound. And for me, I don't know about you, Sean, but End Tapes, it's not one of my favorites. It's not bad, but it's not a super good song. banger in my opinion but it's still good sounds a little different from all the other ones i think so i think so okay so let's let's talk a little bit more about the band so i loved all of the research i did it was so much fun so the two guitarists are ritzy and i want to make sure i pronounce his name partially right he actually sorry she actually refers to him as writ or writ as the welsh would say and so those two were actually childhood friends they met when they were about four or five years old as they got older they actually became And so Ritzy, Brian, and the bassist Ritan Daffod, I'm sorry if I mispronounced that, Rit, but that's the best I could do. They originally played together as part of a Manchester band called Tricky Nixon. So guess what I did? I looked up Tricky Nixon. On Spotify, Tricky Nixon has two songs and eight monthly listeners. So it could be an airshifter band. Very well could be an airshifter band. Shifter band. The music was, you know, it was okay, but it was a little bit forgettable as well. It actually kind of reminded me of almost a pop-friendly, Metallica, Enter Sandman feel to it, which I thought was interesting. But, you know, maybe they have eight listeners for a reason. So the two of them went back to their northern Welsh hometown of... Moulds. Correct. And that's where they formed the Joy Formidable in 2008. In 2009, they replaced their drummer with Matt... James Thomas and Matt is with them to this day. That April, they teamed up with a new label started by a member of Passion Pit to release the EP, A Balloon Called Moaning in the US. Sean, do you remember Passion Pit? I remember leaving Passion Pit. Yes. We are both not fans of Passion Pit. We actually went to, in Toronto, we went to a venue called Cool House and we went for the opening band, which was Matt and Kim, who we love and might show up on this podcast. Who knows? And how

SPEAKER_01: 6:13

could after the drummer stands on her kit and gestulates wildly in a way that seems to be inappropriate, except it's her husband on keyboards, it's hard to, they shouldn't have had them as an opening act.

SPEAKER_00: 6:28

That's right. They should have been the headliners for sure. But I mean, we are a opinion of two, two opinions, I suppose. And we just left when Passion Pit started because we were actually bored and it was kind of wrecking the vibe. Okay. But they did one good thing. Passion Pit? Yeah, they did this album or this EP. So Worrying is on that EP. And it's probably, you know, considered the banger on this EP. Pitchfork, who we love, Pitchfork Media, shout out, ranked the song as number 68 on their top 100 of 2011. So let's give a listen to that song.

UNKNOWN: 7:03

Pitchfork

SPEAKER_01: 7:54

It's a good song. I like that song a lot. I find it funny that you pick the opening part as opposed to the closing part because the closing part reminds me way more of some of your other bands that don't have singers because it's all this crashing and smashing and building up and going quiet, which I think is one of their traits. But they also have a singer, which is good in my books.

SPEAKER_00: 8:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lyrics, right, Sean? Of

SPEAKER_01: 8:21

course.

SPEAKER_00: 8:22

Yeah, that's a good point. And I think that's interesting that the album was called The Big Roar, because that's actually, that is their whole sound, right? Which I think is pretty cool. But the whole LP was really quite solid and earned favorable reviews from NME, which we know and love, The Guardian, The Times, Spin, and again, Pitchfork. Later, many of those same songs would appear on their debut album, which is called The Big Roar, which was recorded in London. Ritt said that it covers a lot of emotional range. It's captured the battle between the eternal optimist and the manic depressive and i do feel like some of their music kind of just is always kind of in between those two

SPEAKER_01: 8:59

yeah it's the it's the loud soft the dynamics yeah quite uh pronounced

SPEAKER_00: 9:04

yeah yeah so released in 2011 the big roar included early singles like austere cradle worrying as well as two further singles i don't want to see you like this and a heavy abacus and a heavy abacus charted at number 25 on billboard's alternative songs and and stayed on there for 15 weeks. So let's give that one a listen.

SPEAKER_01: 10:23

So I think one of the things for me, like listening to them, I didn't get the same appreciation until we saw them. which I had to remind you years later that we actually did see the band at, I believe it was the Horseshoe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:40

So that was funny because, I mean, I freaking love this band and I was arguing with you that we didn't see them. And I said, I remember if I saw them, Sean, and then you kind of triggered it for me. You said Horseshoe, we were standing stage left. There was a gong in the back and then it hit me. So apologies, Joy Formidable. I did freaking love the show. I just see too many shows. And I guess I'm getting older. I don't know. But it was awesome. And thanks for reminding me, Sean. And please come back to Toronto. We promise we'll see you again. And this time I promise I'll remember. They made a lot of noise. Beautiful noise. Made a lot of noise. Yeah. It was awesome. So this album, The Big Roar, got critical reception. 77 out of 100 on Metacritic. BBC called it a fantastic debut. And it really was. It was even hard cherry picking the song, Sean. But I did choose... cradle as the third song to play from this album and we're gonna play that one now

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okay

SPEAKER_00: 12:29

All right, Sean. So look, that was my pick. I love most of this album, probably 90% of it. It was hard picking a song, but I picked Cradle. What do you think? I think it's good.

SPEAKER_01: 12:39

But if I had to pick one song, one other song, I would say it's the ever-changing spectrum of a lie, the opening cut.

SPEAKER_00: 12:45

Interesting. So I think Ritzy was asked what her favorite song to play live is, and I believe it is that song. So that kind of checks out. Okay. So... In November 2011, their song End Tapes was featured on the Twilight Saga Breaking Dawn film soundtrack. We've mentioned that already. The band's second studio album was called Wolf's Law. It was officially released in 2013 in the UK and the US. So Ritzy said the songs were approached with vocals and either a guitar or piano first, and then built upon that. She said, it's all about their lyrics, the voice, and the melody first. Sean lyrics Sean lyrics

SPEAKER_01: 13:33

well I like the the lyrics up front is for sure that's the dynamics is it was their first album so the lyrics yeah that but how did the critics feel about it

SPEAKER_00: 13:45

yeah so this album the critics actually liked Wolf's Law but we'll get to another album that the critics didn't like and we'll talk about that reaction so I was like for me I was kind of like what is Wolf's Law what does that mean right And so I kind of dug in. And Wolf's Law is a scientific theory by Julius Wolf, which states that the bones may become stronger in response to stress as a form of adaptation. And I thought that was really interesting because Ritzy actually comes along and says that one of the major themes of the album is relationships on the mend and feeling reinvigorated, which I thought was really powerful and inspirational. So at the time, too, and almost a result of it, Ritzy's parents were actually going through a really messy divorce. And she said a lot of the feelings of this album came from that feeling of watching her parents go through a divorce. Happy to say they're actually on speaking terms again, and I think that's part of why she talked about kind of remending or making it stronger afterwards, after all the disarray and the messiness. And for me, I really like what she said here at the end of the 2022 She says, and I quote, Isn't music special? It's a switch for so many feelings. In those darker moments, it can make you see the world in color again. It's healing and challenging. All the little patterns in music mirroring the ups and downs in our day-to-day lives. So for me, I thought that was so poignant because I know for both of us, music can affect us so deeply and it can be both a negative and a positive thing so I'll never forget when Tom York's The Eraser came out and the first year or so I actually listened to it twice and kind of shelved it and then about a year later I picked it up and it was I'll never forget it was like January February and I was playing it that's all I was playing for about two months and I turned to my wife Danielle and genuinely said I feel really like sad and kind of depressed and I don't know what's going on and she literally looked at me and said You've been playing that album for two months. And I said, do you think that's it? She said, yes. So I actually had to pull myself out of that. And I don't know about you, Sean, but do you have moments like that at all or no?

SPEAKER_01: 16:15

No, I take the music from a lyrics perspective, from an emotional perspective, maybe as a bit of catharsis as opposed to a reinforcement. So I can listen to some very, you know, darkened, unhappy, sad music. I listen to it and then I don't listen to it on repeat. I can then move on. So sometimes listening to early cure makes me happy because I think about where I was and how important it was so I can dip my toe into that and then go. And

SPEAKER_00: 16:50

what do you tend to go to? So what I've learned the hard way is that I have to like dig myself out of that and I have to like go to, I don't know, New War, or something like something upbeat and peppy to lift myself out of it, even if it's hard. Do you do that or no?

SPEAKER_01: 17:07

No, I just feel like, OK, you know, I've listened to pornography one more time and I won't listen to it for another couple of years at this point. Frequency. All right. Fair enough. But it still feels good.

SPEAKER_00: 17:20

Yeah. Okay, so on Wolf's Law, from me anyway, Sean, a couple of standout tracks. One is called The Leopard and the Lung. And I like that song because it actually felt like it almost belonged on The Big Roar. We're not going to listen to that song, but we are going to listen to this one. I love the energy of this one. It's called This Ladder is Ours.

UNKNOWN: 17:41

This Ladder is Ours

SPEAKER_00: 18:52

okay so for me positive song gives a nice positive almost hopeful feeling and lyrically according to the band anyway it's a song about encouragement and a song about starting over and it truly feels like that too so that'd be a happy song sean for me to listen to after listening to tom york's eraser for too long okay so next they released in 2016 they released their third studio album called hitch now ritzy said that her favorite part of recording this album was to start on an idea and feel alive with it and occasionally just explore where it will go and can go and then they get that breakthrough but this album didn't break through this album got a cold response from critics and there was even some litigation involved now I tried to dig into what the litigation was couldn't find it but you know obviously the band themselves were well aware of this litigation and you know it just made me kind of sad really overall but for me I was also intrigued by like how does that happen to a band. Like, you know, you have this great debut album, you have a pretty good second album, and you go into the studio and that third album, and like, surely you're leaving that studio going, this album's even better than our last two albums, and you're feeling really good about it. Like, I just wonder how that process of either, I don't know what to call it, self-convincing, or is there pressure, or is there yes-men in the room that are saying, yeah, that's great, or do they get tired, or is there a time limit, or what happens in that process? process i

SPEAKER_01: 20:23

think you'd have to believe in yourself if you're not going to believe that this is the best thing you're doing then it would be difficult to continue to do that with such energy enthusiasm and if you're not exploring new things or pushing yourself then you're not really going to be elastic bands so not getting it right sometime and not getting it right to some critics or what they expect i think is par for the course it's one of the the things about being along and continuing to push interesting things. There's lots of examples where the critics didn't like an album when it came out and then it becomes very popular and very inspirational when things come out later in the larger part of an artist's career and where those things that maybe weren't acceptable right away become more fulsome. So who knows what will happen to this album in the fullness of time. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 21:22

I like it. what a great answer i love that i'm actually thinking recently current joy's released a new album and wow you want to talk about experimentation and just like just doing what he wanted to do which i respect i totally respect it too and i think i only liked two songs on the album but i respected the whole album because i just loved like he went just to so many unexpected places i was like wow and you

SPEAKER_01: 21:47

and you high uh highlight albums you take just a little bit of albums in and truly in terms of what you're saying if you respect a whole album you usually just take a little bit from the album and say that's great album and not go back to the other cuts so yeah

SPEAKER_00: 22:03

yeah yeah it's it's hard for me to say that's a full great album right it's hard for me to say that so what happened then sean was they're pissed off about hitch right they're like what the hell we love this album it just we had litigation and we had you know no great praise from anyone it didn't do well in the charts, nothing. So in partial response to that, in 2018, they came out with their fourth studio album called Arf. I'm pronouncing it the best way I can. It's actually spelled A-A-A-R-G-H, but it's pronounced Arf, and it kind of means bear in Welsh. Spice just knows L or

SPEAKER_01: 22:44

Ys or Ws. Is that right? A lot of Welsh use

SPEAKER_00: 22:49

those consonants. Okay, okay. So this album was like a primal scream out of frustration with a lot of things that, you know, not exclusively to Hitch, but a lot of things that were going on at the time. And this album was partially written in Wales, but also partially written in their new home, which is where, Sean? I think they live in

SPEAKER_01: 23:09

southern U.S. now,

SPEAKER_00: 23:11

don't they? Whoa, okay. Which state? Do you want a hint?

SPEAKER_01: 23:17

Nevada.

SPEAKER_00: 23:18

Oh, I think close. Rhymes with Utah. Okay. So they're Mormons. Yeah, that's right. They're totally Mormons. Actually, it was kind of interesting because it turns out that Ritzy found Utah to be a rejuvenating place. She said, the air tastes good. The sky is pretty. And it doesn't rain all the time like Wales. And it doesn't rain all the time like Wales because you've been there. You know. And Ritzy actually, it turns out, loves the wilderness. And if she was to do another job, it would be like a national geographic correspondent or a travel writer. because she loves exploring and loves the expanse of nature. Again, for me, and if you look at our Joy Formidable or Formidable Besties playlist on Spotify, follow us at Earshifter. There was no standout songs on this album. So I guess a little bit ironic because I didn't have any standouts on Hitch and none on this one either. But still, to Sean's point, love that you just go explore, push yourselves in whatever direction you want to do and let the cards fall with they may. So this brings us to their fifth and most recent studio album, which is called Into the Blue. It was released 2021 when the pandemic was really having a good time. The single and maybe the best track for me is the title track called Into the Blue. It was written in Wales but recorded in Utah. Now we're going to switch from five fun facts that are true and therefore not from ChatGPT. Ritchie's TV show reco. Her favorite shows are Anything with David Attenborough and And she also loves gardening. Favorite board game to play on their 2016 tour. Do you play board game, Sean? Not very much. Yeah. So Cards Against Humanity. Okay. Yeah. You know that one or heard of it? Yeah, I know that one.

SPEAKER_01: 25:09

I prefer Apples to Apples because it's more wholesome.

SPEAKER_00: 25:12

Yeah. I think almost anything is more wholesome than Cards Against Humanity. Played it once with Chloe's Nana. That was an interesting experience at Christmas time. So It was asked to the band, if you could have dinner with anyone, who would it be? And the bassist's answer, which was Patti Smith, which I thought was pretty cool. Again, not a huge fan of her music, but what she stands for and being, I think, the godmother of punk, essentially, respect, immense respect. So I thought that was kind of cool. I thought you'd think that was cool, too. Every tour, Matt, the drummer, picks up a hobby. And one of these, Sean, one of these hobbies is not true. So I want you to try and guess which one is not true. I'm going to read them all first. So on one tour, he picked up guitar playing as a drummer. So he learned how to play guitar. On another tour, origami, where he was first introduced to origami making in Tokyo on tour. They had a cooking tour where he just cooked a lot. And then he had a workout to get fit tour where the other band members wanted them to stay thin and junky looking was the quote. So which of those, which of those do you think is not true? Okay. I

SPEAKER_01: 26:23

believe drummers want to play guitar. I believe they want to fold things. And maybe they want to cook. I don't think they need help with that junky look if they're energetic drummers. So I think the last one's false.

SPEAKER_00: 26:37

Okay. No, it was the origami making. I think I fooled you with the Tokyo little part I put in there. But it was the origami making. But yeah, they complained that he got too heavy and too strong and wanted him back to the junky look. Okay. And then finally, their favorite method of discovering music, which I just thought was a great way to kind of close this. So for them, their favorite way of discovering new music is conversation with other music folks and music mates and just keeping their ears open, which I think is exactly why we started this whole goddamn thing. I agree. Yeah. And doing what you want. And doing what you want. And I think all 13 of our listeners can maybe discover a new band or artist as well. Right. Via our little podcast here. because the radio overlooks so much great talent and, you know, in my opinion, often pushes garbage till listeners are brainwashed to like it. And I just, that's why we're doing this. And then just a final note, Sean, you know, it was so weird researching, because this is only our second podcast, folks. So it was odd because I watched so many interviews with this band. I actually felt like I started to get to know them, which I know is not right or fair or anything, but I really liked them as human beings. Like I just, I just liked... They just seemed so relaxed and great and they had a real vibe and they joked around, but it didn't feel like forced. And I feel like I kind of got close to the band, which was weird and a false feeling for sure. But I think it's hard to tell feelings that they're false.

SPEAKER_01: 28:09

Well, especially on the internet. Yeah. But what I think is interesting that for... a relatively small band. They've had some success. You're going to give us the social media stats, I'm sure, in a moment. But what I thought was interesting during COVID, that they really did try to keep that connection going with their fans, that they were very much putting out music on their program, that they had a special website that you could get to that if you were a fan. And they really did try to build that connection or continue that connection through COVID, which is, again, something that bands have to do to keep going and to be relevant. So yeah, good for them.

SPEAKER_00: 28:57

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, great segue, Sean. So the question is, is this an ear shifter band? And I'm going to answer that first, just based on what you just said. So I feel like 100% this is an ear shifter band. I still can't believe that they don't have more. So right now they only have 168,000 monthly listeners. So yeah, no change of heart. Change of heart, I think had 304 monthly listeners, but also no beach out. right so beach house has 12 million monthly listeners or elliot smith 2 million monthly listeners so then and i kind of know where this is going because we've had some some chats uh off the podcast but for me i still feel like that still justifies them to be an ear shift your band because if it's going to be about a cutoff number of monthly listeners then you know what is that number is it under a million monthly listeners because guess what buddy mountain goats has a million monthly listeners so that would mean you can do mountain goats and I know you want to do mountain goats yeah okay

SPEAKER_01: 30:00

you're

SPEAKER_00: 30:00

revealing the future but yes that's okay we can reveal a bit and then is it under 2 million because band of horses has 2.7 million who you love and you love we both love how many times have you seen them

SPEAKER_01: 30:14

can't remember a couple yeah

SPEAKER_00: 30:16

exactly yeah so we both want to do that one we'll probably be fighting for that one so I don't I'm not sold on it being a number in terms of monthly listeners so then so then is it really more of a gut thing i don't know for me again when i'm talking to my music friends you excluded or people that are just passionate about music and like exploring if they don't know the band or artist that i'm saying that's enough for me like then it's like oh well you should check out this band like it might be pretty cool you might like them what do you think

SPEAKER_01: 30:49

So when you first said, hey, these guys are great, I was like, this is back in the day, I was like, okay, they are a loud, soft band, dynamics, and it did take me a little bit to warm to them. It was the gong when we saw them live, and I'd never seen as big a gong, and he used it very judiciously. It wasn't like gonging all the time. So So I did appreciate after seeing them and after listening to them more that, yeah, they have a, there is something different about them and there's something there that isn't there in a lot of other bands. So yes, I agree. They're an air shifter band. Excellent. I'm glad we're in agreement, Sean. Thank God. What are we going to do when we disagree? I

SPEAKER_00: 31:41

don't know. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, I guess. Stay tuned for season two. That's right. Season stuff will be thrown. Okay. So, uh, This is the part where we say, hey, people, what do you think? You can follow Earshifter on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, or now called X or whatever the hell it's called now, or visit Earshifter.com. We'll also post a Joy Formidable playlist of our fave songs on Spotify. I'm Rene Rouleau, and my co-host is Sean Kapsik, and this is our second episode of Earshifter. Special thanks go to our logo designer, Stuart Thursby, and our intro outro music by Joe Novak you can find him as bye bye bad man all one word on SoundCloud and thanks go to our excellent sound engineer slash editor Colin Bain also found at soundcloud.com backslash Colin Bain that's C-O-L-I-N B-A-I-N tune in next time where we'll cover another band that deserves more who will it be? hint Okay. A

SPEAKER_01: 32:51

New York poet who released three, I think, seminal albums that are, had great popularity, but underappreciated and hung out with some very famous people that we can talk about next time.

SPEAKER_00: 33:07

Nice.

SPEAKER_01: 33:08

On EarShifter.

SPEAKER_00: 33:09

Awesome. Excellent. I'm excited. And you use that seminal word again, but now I know what it means. All right. Thanks everyone. Thanks for listening. Bye. See you next time. Bye.